Young Horse or Experienced Horse?

I was chatting with a fellow boarder the other day, and she asked me if I ever found myself comparing Donut with Nimo.  And of course, I do.  But not really in a way that would indicate one was better than the other.  It's more a matter of interesting observations.  Like Donut struggled with being bathed while Nimo had no issues with it.  Or it was very challenging to handle Nimo's feet while for Donut, it was much less so.  Every horse is different and I've learned that they are just like people.  They have idiosyncrasies and fears and things that make them happy.

One thing I do miss, though, is working with Nimo's finished self.  He was a tremendous amount of work when he was younger, but once he got older, handling him started to feel very intuitive and natural.  Not necessarily because he was the best trained horse ever (I can assure you that he wasn't), but because over time, I got to know him and he got to know me and we figured out how to communicate.  So I could feel when he was worried and adjust my behavior accordingly.  I knew where he liked to be scratched.  And both on the ground and under saddle, I knew the right amount of pressure to use and how to move my body to ask him to do things like move over or stop.  It felt very comfortable.

Working with Donut doesn't feel comfortable yet.  We still have lots to learn together before we have that same level of comfort.

Which brings me to the main point of this post.  Can you speed up the process of becoming comfortable with a horse by getting an older, more experienced horse that is already under saddle and knows its job versus getting a young horse that needs one or more years to mature before it can even be started under saddle?

I think most people would answer yes to this question.  They would argue that you get what you pay for, and when you pay significantly more for an older horse, you get the benefit of someone else's work, so you can get straight to your riding goals.  Whereas, with the young horse, you have to put in all the time educating them, so it could take years to get to the point of the person wants to be at.

A few years ago, I might have agreed with those people.  But not anymore.  I have had the opportunity to watch a lot of horses being handled and trained and competed, and then I've got my very own experience with Freya and a couple of other horses to inform me.  Admittedly, I haven't had her very long, but I have noticed some things that I think are important.

One thing I have seen not infrequently is a person buying a horse that is already under saddle and expecting that horse to do the same things for them that it did for its previous owner.  And then watching as the horse was pretty emphatic that it had no intention of doing those things.  Why?  Was it because the horse was misrepresented?  Was it because the original rider was so much better than the new rider?  Something else?

I suspect it is because I quite literally never see the new owner ever take any time to make sure the horse is comfortable in its new environment, that it has all the training it is supposed to have, and that the rider knows what she is supposed to know before she gets on.  Then one of three things happens.  The rider decides the horse isn't a good fit for her and resells the horse within a year.  Or the horse and rider continue to proceed, but the rider complains all the time that the horse isn't doing what it is supposed to do and there is no harmony, only an accident waiting to happen.  Or the rider realizes that something is missing, and gets help from a professional to make sure the horse and the rider have the appropriate skill set and the rider takes the time to make sure the horse gets the nutrition it needs, the environment it needs, the hoof care it needs, the medical care it needs, the tack it needs, and the conditioning and schooling it needs.  OK, so the last one is not something I've seen happen, but it is a possibility. 

Why doesn't that last thing ever happen?  I don't know, but I think part of it is this expectation that people have that older horses should already have the skills they need and be immediately ready to go out and do their jobs.  Which is an odd expectation, because I don't think these same people would expect a new employee at their job to just jump in and start performing at full capability.  So why would we expect it from a horse?

My personal experience with having had both young horses and older horses in my life is that in the long run, there is little difference between getting a young horse and an older horse.  Sure, you may be able to get on and ride the older horse sooner.  But unless that older horse happens to be extremely well trained (which also means you had a ton of money to spend on said horse) and you happen to be an extremely good and thoughtful rider and the two of you just hit it off right away, you are going to invest a huge amount of time figuring out where the gaps in the horse's training are, where the gaps in your skills are, and figuring out how to communicate really well with that horse.  You may go to competitions or on trail rides, but your performance will always be missing something until you get into sync with your horse.  And that process isn't going to happen overnight.

With a young horse, that effort comes about almost by necessity.  You are forced to put in the time just hanging out with the horse, and figuring out how much pressure to use, and what the horse's preferences are.  You go systematically through the training, starting with ground work and ground manners and work through initial bitting and saddling, before asking for more advanced things.  You don't expect the horse to just know everything.  You assume it doesn't, so you take the time.  And in 3-5 years, you have a wonderful partner.  Probably about the same amount of time as it would take to get to that stage for an older horse.  (Obviously, the time could vary by horse and person, but as an example...)

It's been awhile since I had an older, new-to-me horse in my life, but as I'm reminded by Freya, older horses need the same time and effort you put in to younger horses.  Freya does many things well.  She stands in the cross-ties for grooming and a bath.  She is easy to handle for picking her feet and trimming.  She was a saint for the dentist (I've literally never seen another horse be that quiet - no sedation needed.)  She can be led from point A to point B by a kid.  She loads in a trailer with no fuss.  She appears to be able to handle a low-key dressage show environment with no problem.  And she is great with Gemma.

Gemma and Freya at a dressage show over the weekend.

Super nice halt and salute!

So it is awesome not to have to feel like I need to work on those things with her.  But...that doesn't mean we don't have things to work on.  She can get impatient sometimes, so we have to work on learning to stand still under a variety of conditions for lengthy periods of time.  She and Donut are starting to get a little too attached to each other, so there is some mild separation anxiety for me to monitor.  Under saddle, her balance is the same as a young horse, but with the added challenge of her being pretty committed to keeping that balance (or lack thereof).  So I am trying to peel the layers off of the protections she has in place and convince her that she should try to move differently.  Based on the last couple of rides, I may have to actually do the work on the lunge and in-hand first to help her understand what I'm asking and give her a chance to express herself without me in the saddle.  (I was finally able to do the start of the Masterson Bladder Meridian technique a few days ago, and she gave me a ton of releases in her neck.  Baby steps!)

How many years will it take me to retrain her balance so that it becomes intuitive?  I have no idea, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that it takes the same time as it takes for Donut, or even longer.  Right now, I'm still in the stage where I'm identifying the gaps in her skill set, learning how to communicate with her, and figuring out what I need to learn to help her.  I'm also rehabbing her hooves to a certain degree and working on figuring out what feed works best for her.  She needs to build some muscle over her back, and I'm fully in experimentation mode.  Thankfully, she is very food-oriented, so she is eating everything with gusto.  

If you are curious, currently on the menu are Speedi-beet (non-GMO beet pulp that soaks fast because I am lazy and have poor planning skills), Triple Crown Crimped and Steamed Oats (they are the best looking oats I've ever seen and they are non-GMO), MannaPro's Renew Gold (high fat/protein supplement for potentially helping build her topline), Mad Barn's 3:1 zinc/copper supplement (I like that it has the two minerals already balanced), Jiagulan (adaptogenic herb that may improve circulation for her feet), Hilton Herbs' Easy Mare and Mud Defense (she was stricken by a terrible case of rain rot a few weeks ago, and I'm determined to avoid that in the future), British Horse Feeds Cooked Linseed (I'll phase this out if I keep her on Mud Defense because it is already in that supplement), unsweetened shredded coconut, and Redmond salt.  (Yes, my feed prep area is kind of insane, although Donut is on a much simpler diet.)

And then I discovered that while she can be led from point A to point B with no problem by even a complete novice, it turns out she struggles with some ground work requests.  For example, she tends to anticipate and rush through the work instead of moving one foot at a time.  So we need to help her learn to slow down and place her feet with more care.  In my opinion, that is an essential skill for any trail horse, and it starts on the ground.  So we will be spending the fall and winter working on ground work patterns and obstacles.  Guess who else will be doing that work?  Donut.

In the end, I don't know that there is any advantage to getting a more experienced horse over a young one.  It is why I have decided to get young horses for my last three horses.  There are still issues to deal with, of course, but at least I know what I have done (or haven't done), so I'm not caught by surprise when the older horse that I assumed would know something doesn't know it after all.

But for some riders, like Gemma, it makes sense to start with an older horse, who has a solid temperament and basic skills.  She isn't educated enough to handle a green horse, and Freya works just fine for her.  They don't have to do anything fancy, and to a certain extent, I (and a couple of riding instructors) can work with them to improve their skills.  But it's good that I can work with Freya too.  Improving her balance will hopefully help her do more and be sound longer.  And over time, Gemma will gain the coordination and knowledge she needs to take advantage of that improved balance.

Do you have a preference?  Why?

Donut Update: Bathing

I can't remember the last time I wrote about Donut.  She is still alive and well and mostly staying out of trouble.  (With the exception of a puncture wound just above her eye, which is now mostly healed, but is a story all on its own.)  I haven't been doing too much with her except basic grooming, hoof care, and continuing my work with her and water.

You may remember that when I got her, she was opposed to all water that wasn't completely natural.  While she didn't mind being in the rain or walking through puddles, she was absolutely not having any water applied by a person or a hose on her body.  Even damp sponges and rags were offensive to her.

Over the past year, I've been working through her concerns, and we reached a milestone a few weeks ago.  She will now stand reasonably quietly in the outdoor wash area in cross ties while I hose, scrub, and otherwise remove filth from her.  After many, many months of asking other people to hold her, washing her tail in a bucket in her stall, and other creative strategies to convince her that water is not evil, it feels like such a luxury to be able to use both my hands to wash her while she stands still and doesn't try to kick water droplets that commit the cardinal sin of landing on her person.

We are still not at the point where she is patient enough for me to give her a whole bath all at once.  I'm still keeping the sessions short, and I typically will wash only one body part or section at a time.  If I do rinse her whole body, I need to be prepared for her to act like a just-bathed dog.  If I put her in her stall afterward, she rubs her whole body against the stall walls.  I guess to try to rub the water off?  Or put more dirt back on?  And if I graze her outside, she wants to rub against the fence.  It's kind of comical to watch.  I don't think I've ever seen another horse behave quite like that.

The other bonus is that she is no longer fussy about me spraying her with things.  I stopped using fly spray with Nimo many years ago when I realized he was coughing a lot when I used it.  And every once in a while when I experimented with it, I didn't notice much of a difference between how many flies bothered him with the spray versus no spray.  (I am convinced that Virginia flies are some kind of genetically modified organisms that are impervious to poisons...)

And with Donut, she was initially quite worried about being sprayed, so I didn't use it, and I've found the same thing.  Using it just seems to attract dirt while not doing anything about the flies.  (And yes, I do understand I could wipe on the fly spray, but Donut used to be worried about that too.)  Anyway, Gemma told me a few weeks ago that she sprayed Donut with fly spray when she was out in the field.  Why, I have no idea.  My child's mind is mostly a mystery to me.

I was horrified, and asked if she'd gotten kicked.  Gemma looked at me like I was an idiot, and told me of course she hadn't been kicked.  Why would Donut kick her?  Right, so apparently all the work with the hose also resolved the spray issue, and Donut is fine with being sprayed by an assortment of products now.

And the most blissful thing is to be able to cross-tie her.  I've done work with tying her in her stall and she seemed to handle that well, but the wash area is a wide open, outdoor space.  So I wasn't sure how long it would take for Donut to handle that.  In fact, once I started working on it, it didn't take long at all.  She has a very good understanding of pressure and so if she moves a little and feels the pressure from the ties, she stops.  I started out by attaching one tie and then holding the lead rope on the other side.  Then I swapped the sides.  After a couple of weeks of doing that, I attached both ties and haven't had any problems.

My future goals are to lengthen the amount of time she can stand tied and transfer her skill set to the indoor wash area.  But for now, I am super happy that I can get her clean on my own.

Questions for Buying a Horse

I've been meaning to write this post for awhile, but I lost/misplaced my list of questions until recently, and there was no way I could reproduce them from memory.  (I have attempted to block the whole process of buying a horse from my mind - it was very stressful!)

When I started to look for a horse for Gemma, I put together a handful of questions that I wanted to ask the sellers.  I got feedback from a couple of friends and added a few more, and I borrowed a couple from a post by Bruce Weary on the AERC Facebook page.  What I discovered is that the more sellers I talked to and the more horse ads I looked at, the more questions I was able to come up with.  

What follows below is where I ended up by the time I bought Freya at the auction.  I didn't have a chance to ask every single question then, and I don't know that it ended up being a big deal that I didn't.  It is definitely possible to make some assumptions about a horse based on how it behaves when you interact with it and see it in a new environment.  But I don't think I'm really at the point where I can just sense things about horses the way a lot of more experienced horse shoppers can.  So I wanted to be as comprehensive as I could be.

Anyway, just in case I have a reader who is embarking on some horse shopping, I thought I would share the questions.

1. What can you tell me about the horse?  (This question came from Bruce Weary.  He often buys horses from Craigslist ads, and even sight unseen.  He recommended this question as a way to open the door of communication and get the seller talking.  He pointed out that sometimes a seller will tell you something about the horse that you would have never thought to ask.)

2. What level of rider is the horse best suited for?  (This was the hardest question for me to ask, because a lot of sellers led a conversation by asking me what I was looking for.  That was annoying, and one recommendation I have is to try to get the seller to answer this question before you give away a lot about what you are looking for.  Most sellers are honest, I think, or at least well-intended, but I think it is better to hear the seller's analysis so that they don't skew their answer to make the sale.)

3. How long have you had the horse?  (Even if the owner hasn't had the horse long, sometimes you can track down previous owners or more stuff about the horse on social media.  Never underestimate the power of a hashtag search on Instagram or a name search on Facebook.  It's amazing what you can find.)

4. What is the most dangerous thing the horse has ever done?  (I'm pretty sure this one also came from Bruce, and it is a great question.  For the horses I was looking at, I typically got answers like, the horse sometimes doesn't stand still for mounting or the horse trots kind of fast.)

5. Does the horse have any bad habits, like weaving, cribbing, kicking, biting, etc.?  (If you have a pet peeve horse behavior, make sure you ask about it.  In this area, cribbing is super common, and isn't always disclosed because people are so used to it.  Kicking and biting are also surprisingly common among the performance horses I know at my barn and others, so it's good to know what the horse does.)

6. Does the horse stand tied to a trailer/post/wall?  (I know lots of horses that can be tied to an object or cross-tied, but not both.  Cross-tying is the most common method I see in this area, and lots of people keep their horses in the trailer at shows because they don't stand tied to a trailer.)

7. Does the horse stand in cross-ties?

8. How does the horse lead?  How do you encourage the horse to move forward?  What cues do you use for turning/stopping/backing? (This question and the next one includes getting information on how the horse is asked to do something because I've discovered that it isn't standard.  Lots of natural horsemanship techniques seem to be used, along with the more traditional methods and some horses are very specific about what they need from their handler.)

9. Does the horse load in a trailer?  How do you ask the horse to go in?  What kind of trailers has the horse been in?  How does the horse haul?

10. Where has the horse traveled?  How often?

11. Does the horse stand for grooming, picking feet, farrier, clipping?

12. How do you catch the horse?  (Don't ask if the horse is easy to catch. That is too subjective.  Some people think it is normal to have to wander all over to catch the horse.)

13. Have you trail ridden the horse?  How often? Where?  On what kind of trails?  Are there any obstacles that bother the horse?  (I learned in my endurance days that trail riding is not the same for everyone.  For some people, trail riding is a 30-minute walk around an open field and for others, it is 5 hours of walk/trot/canter over rocky mountain trails.)

14. Have you shown the horse?  In what disciplines?  How often?  Where?  Is there anything the horse is concerned about at shows?

15. What kind of environment is the horse kept in?  (For example, in a field with other horses during the day and stalled at night.)  If the horse is in a pasture, is the horse used to being in a stall?  How does the horse handle being in a stall for several hours?

16. If a mare, what is the mare like when she is in heat?

17. If a gelding, when was the horse gelded?  (I came up with this one after my experience at an auction where I saw a 9-year-old gelding that I learned had only bene gelded at 7. Gelding that late can mean lasting stallion-like behaviors.)

18. Does the horse have any soundness issues now or previously?

19. Does the horse have any medical issues now or previously?

20. What is the horse being fed now?  Any supplements?  Medications?  How often?  And how is the horse fed (e.g. in a stall, in a run-in with a nosebag and other horses, on the ground, in a special bucket)

21. What discipline/style of riding is the horse most commonly used for?  How is the horse to tack up?  What equipment do you use?  (e.g. bit, girth, pad, saddle - some horses have strong preferences)  What other disciplines/styles of riding have you tried with the horse?

22. Has the horse been ridden with other horses, either on a trail or in the arena?  What was the horse's response to horses close to it or moving away/toward it?

23. Has the horse ever been ridden alone?  If yes, how does it behave?

So that is my list of questions.  You could definitely add in some more about pre-purchase exams, trial periods, contract and pricing terms, registration status, discipline/competition-specific, etc., depending on the market and the price point you are looking at.  And some of them can definitely be answered through observation if you get the chance, but in a hot horse market, buyers may have to buy with limited interaction with the horse and no trial period.  So the more information, the better!  And, if a seller seems to hedge on answers or skirt the issue, then that is information you can use too.  

If you have any questions that you have found to be helpful, please feel free to comment with them.  I'm not expecting to buy another horse anytime soon, but I can use all the help I can get the next time!:)